Ask45—Issue No. 1

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Ask45 - Issue No. 1

We’re not sure if it’s the feeling of our new site design or our increased presence on Twitter, but we seem to have more and more people contacting us with questions than ever before. The questions cover everything from design and development to client management and business ownership. Although we’re extremely busy and it’s hard to give every question the lengthy response it deserves, during a brainstorm session the other day we decided that some questions warranted a more in depth response. Thus, the Ask45 series was born!

Once a month we’ll take a look at all the questions we’ve received and then select a few to answer here on the site. Our hope is that we’ll be able to not only give our opinion on the topic at hand, but also open up the questions to the web community for additional perspective. Every person, firm, client, and project is different. As a result, it’s impossible for us to say what will always work best for you and your situation. We make no claims about having the “right” answers, we’re still learning and growing too, but discussion is always healthy!

Question #1: “How many rounds of design revisions do you typically account for in a proposal?”

There are a couple ways to address this issue in your proposals. One option is to explicitly call out the number of revisions you’ll give the client. After working on several projects, you’ll be able to look at your data to see how many revisions you typically do per comp. If that number averages to say, three rounds per project, you should use that as a starting point in your proposals. Probably the biggest challenge with this approach is figuring out what constitutes a round of revisions, as you and your client might have differing opinions about what constitutes a “round”.

Here’s an example: Your client asks you to change the design from a two column layout to a three column layout. Most people would consider that a round of changes, especially since there would be large layout implications to contend with. Now let’s say a few days later, after delivering the new three column layout, the client wants you to rearrange the sidebar items on that same page? The change might be quick, but since it wasn’t requested with the initial list of changes, is it still considered a round of revisions? If your limit was three rounds and you’ve already used them up, do you veto the sidebar change or request more time be added to the budget? Neither of those scenarios are likely going to make your client happy. So if you’re going to take this approach, be sure that you can effectively communicate to your client what your revision process entails. If there are any questions, address them before you enter into an agreement and start your project. That way you can refer back to that discussion if questions come up after you’ve started.

Over the years, we’ve found that instead of calling out a set number of rounds, it’s better to estimate the number of hours a comp will take to complete, including revisions.

Over the years, we’ve found that instead of calling out a set number of rounds, it’s better to estimate the number of hours a comp will take to complete, including revisions. With this approach, if you estimate that an initial comp will take you 6 hours and revisions will take you roughly 4 hours, you’d indicate that the comp will take you 10 hours from start to finish. In a sense, the total hour count here works in the same way that the number of rounds does in the first approach we discussed. It gives you and the client a cap to work towards, but the advantage is that you don’t have to explain what type of changes make up a round. However, while we do prefer this approach, it doesn’t mean that you don’t have to set expectations with your client. You still need to set expectations and do your best to keep revisions to a minimum. It really comes down to effective communication between you and your client and it’s up to you to keep them advised of the current hour count and educate them on what revisions make the most sense.

The bottom line is if you’re having to do round after round of revisions, something is probably wrong.  Either you don’t have a firm grasp of what your client is looking for, they’re not communicating requirements properly or are just being extremely picky! At that point you need to isolate the underlying issue and bring it to the client’s attention as soon as possible so that the situation can be resolved before losing the client or your reputation.

Question #2: “When doing a quote for a client, do you disclose your hourly rate?”

We typically base most of our proposals on our hourly rate, even if we’re submitting a proposed budget for an entire project. I wouldn’t say we do many flat fee projects, but whatever price we come up with, it’s always based on how many man hours we estimate the work is going to take us. This allows us to not only come up with a price, but also estimate the project schedule; which is critical when you’re working on multiple projects at once.

When we prepare our proposals, we don’t always disclose the hourly rate up front, but we do show the estimated number of hours per task and the proposed project budget. So even if we don’t have our hourly rate on the proposal, the client can do the math. Of course, we always disclose our hourly rate for consulting projects because that’s typically work done by the hour and the payment rate should be established in the agreement before you start.

This kind of ties back into the first question above, but whether or not you decide to disclose your hourly rate, we feel that it’s a good idea to disclose the number of hours per deliverable in your estimates. That will let the client get a sense for how much work is actually involved, plus it gives you a number to reference when they start requesting more and more deliverables that could potentially push you over budget.

Send us your questions

We hope that this article answered some of the questions you sent us and we’re looking forward to answering more of them in the future. We’re really excited about the new Ask45 series and we hope to receive more of your questions in the coming weeks. Feel free to send us your questions via our contact form, email us directly at info@45royale.com, or send your questions to @45royale on Twitter. We’d love to hear your thoughts on the questions presented today too, so please don’t hesitate to join the conversation!

15 Responses to "Ask45—Issue No. 1"

  1. Casey Nix 0692009

    Great article guys! This provides great insight into the darkness of dealing with revisions. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

  2. Thank you for these answers. The first part concerning revisions was really helpful!

  3. gracias! always good to read what other, farther along, folks are doing. like the new look as well.

  4. Thanks for the comments and feedback everyone!

    It is our intention to make this article series all about YOU, so please don’t hesitate to drop us your questions about design, development, business… whatever. You can leave a comment in this thread or reach out to us via our contact form. No questions are stupid questions, so fire away!

    Thanks again, and we’re looking forward to hearing from you soon and making the new Ask45 series a success!

  5. It’s always nice to see some different perspectives (and explanation of those perspectives) on these issues. Super helpful….thanks guys.

  6. Hey! Can you tell me where are the two strange but cool guys from the top picture of this article are from? Thx !!! I like them and also collect action figures.

  7. @Matt Reich We’re glad you found the article helpful! Feel free to shoot us any questions or topics you’d like to see us address in upcoming issues.

    @Holger Those strangely cool figures are from two separate Kidrobot blind boxes of 3-inch soft vinyl mini-figures. The guy on the left is from the Fatcap Series 2 set and the one on the right is from the Dunny Series 5 and was designed by artist, Jesse LeDoux. As you can tell from pics around our office, we’re big fans of designer toys too!

  8. Tim 0762009

    This is in regards to your Ask45 series:

    Going back to question #2. Let’s say for a flat fee build you’ve place your estimated number of hours for the task and the proposed project price and give the client a final price from this; what happens if the client takes advantage of this (final) price owed and continues to add changes into the project after you’ve reached your capped hours of estimation? Do you continue to bill them hourly there after or still give it to them at the price quoted? Would it be a good idea to have a clause for something like? Hence if they drag their feet or take up more of your time with additional demands than first estimated.

  9. @Tim thanks for keeping the conversation going! To answer your question, it really comes down to communication with the client and how you structure your proposals and agreements. If your proposal is clear about the number of hours that your including in your flat fee build, your client shouldn’t be able to take “advantage” of the hours you quoted. It falls on you to communicate with your client and keep them up to date on the hours remaining on the project, so everyone is on the same page. If you’ve delivered on all of your promises and the project has come in at the agreed upon price, both parties should be happy.

    One thing that may help you and your client start off on this right foot, in all of our proposals we have a line that says:

    “Any change in requirements by {company_name} may result in a change in price and/or scheduling.”

    And in our agreements we repeat that line from above, and in the payment schedule section we say the following:

    “Any and all work extensions shall be filed and handled no later than {date} and at which point a new contract will be issued with updated requirements and time frame.”

    These statements give you something to reference when your client starts requesting additional changes. That being said, it’s up to you to make sure you stick by these statements. However, there are always exceptions, and you’ve got to make a judgment call on whether or not you proceed with the changes even though you’re out of hours. Provided you have the time and if the changes aren’t unreasonable, going the extra mile could pay off for you and your business down the road. If your client leaves happy, they’re more likely to come back to you for future work and recommend you to their friends and colleagues. Bending your own rules can be a slippery slope though, so be careful and don’t bite off more than you can chew!

  10. Tim 07152009

    Great advice Adam, thanks!

  11. i like both the answers. great !

  12. Simon 1012009

    Great stuff, love your website design! Btw what font is the Ask of the image used for your series? Lovely look.

  13. Joshua Russell 10272009

    Where did you get your desk toys from? The ones in the photo up the top :)

  14. Hi Guys,

    Great website!

    Can I ask, what is your normal time frame for an initial web home page mock-up is it between 6 -10 hours with revisions?

  15. Nearly every site you design is build on top of wordpress, what is one of the main things you use for custom information? Custom fields play a big part but it would be awesome for you to delve into how specifically you use them at 45 Royale and some code for using them with 2.9?

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